Good news: the podcast Test on the SOM is getting a second season! Now the last episode Now that Season 1 is online, the creators of Bas Liebeek and Jeroen Medema look back and ahead. What surprised them the most this year, and what can listeners expect from the next season? ‘We don’t want to give a promotional pitch; instead, we want to share our own journey and doubts.’

To start at the beginning: how did you come up with the idea to make a podcast?

BaseI often listen to podcasts while cooking or exercising. Suddenly, I thought: this would also be ideal for WesselinkVanZijst. We find sharing knowledge very important. That's why we provide training and write books, articles, and columns. But we also have so many interesting one-on-one conversations with peers. Why wouldn't we add a microphone to that? Then others can listen in and learn from it.

It immediately seemed like a lot of fun to do this with Jeroen. He and I have the same sense of humor and we also talk to each other regularly outside of work. But at that moment, Jeroen was still busy with the Strategic Stakeholder Engagement: Practical Guide. I did ask him, and thankfully he responded very enthusiastically.‘

Jeroen‘As soon as I had space in my schedule, we took the next step. Bas is also the one who has mastered the technical part of podcasting best. Honestly: if I had to record an episode by myself, I wouldn't know where to start, haha.’

For those of you who don't know yet: what is "Proef op de SOM" about?

BaseEach episode, we invite a guest to delve deeper into a theme related to our profession. Think about the role of politics, the increasing complexity of issues, the role of trust, diversity and inclusion. Or how you can make data work for you.

As an agency, we deal daily with issues that involve significant stakes – in a rapidly changing society. The challenges we face are often also encountered by other environmental professionals. That makes it so important to connect and consult with each other. Our field is still relatively young and developing rapidly.’

JeroenWe certainly don't want to give a lecture or a pep talk, but rather share our own search and doubts. Furthermore: SOM originally comes from the infra-world, but similar issues play out in many other sectors. If you work for a water board in Friesland, it can be very useful to hear how they tackled a particular project at a Limburg chemical company. Ultimately, conflicts behave in roughly the same pattern everywhere. Interests also work the same way everywhere. This allows you to easily learn lessons from different fields of work.’

BaseExactly. In training or a book, the focus quickly shifts to theories and standard processes. Logically, you want to convey the essence. But ultimately, environmental management is about To dofly hours, stumble occasionally, get back up, and learn from it. A podcast like this is well-suited for discussing that challenging practice. What works and what doesn't? That's how we arrived at the name: we're really putting it to the test.’

How do you look back on the first season?

Bas: ‘Having the courage to overcome my hesitation—that feeling really sticks with me. Just uploading that first episode, even if it’s not perfect yet. Of course, we prepare thoroughly—but then you just have to let it happen. Luckily, we had great guests who were very forgiving.’

JeroenI recognize the hesitation. Our first three guests were Johanneke de Lint, Janneke de Jong and Marc Wesselink – all seasoned professionals. Marc is of course our colleague, and we know Janneke and Johanneke well too. But you're asking someone to invest time in something where you yourself don't yet know how it will turn out.

I remember the first episode exactly. We knew roughly what we wanted to talk about, but we didn't have a script otherwise. It turned into an incredibly fun conversation – still one of my favorite episodes. At the same time, it was improvising: oh yes, we need to provide the listener with some structure. Oh yes, it's helpful to explain terms.’

Bas: ‘We always have an intake with guests. Not to pre-chew the entire conversation: precisely not, because then the second time is never as much fun. But we are now creating a basic structure with topics. In the beginning, we were mainly the questioners. Over the course of the season, we also explicitly asked guests to question us. Not to claim the stage, but so that it becomes more of a conversation between peers.’

JeroenWhat I still find quite complicated is that we want the episodes to be interesting for people who know SOM well and are quite advanced in it, but also keep it understandable for environmental professionals who are just starting out. That remains a balancing act.‘

What has surprised you the most this first season?

BaseHow much time goes into making one episode! You think: invite someone, turn on the microphone, do a little editing afterward, and you're done. But it's not that simple. Especially because we want to deliver quality.

Half-hour episodes – our original idea – also proved too ambitious. You still want to introduce your guest, ask a few questions, and then allow room for conversation. Plus, our field involves many terms that require explanation or context. Now, each episode lasts about 45 minutes: still reasonably concise, but with more room for depth.’

Jeroen: ‘What positively surprised me is how many listeners we already have. I found that quite exciting beforehand: what if nobody is waiting for this? But the podcast has since been listened to more than a thousand times, and we already have a good group of followers. Still nice to know that you're doing it for a reason.

Although I had also hoped we would get more responses. We are getting very nice responses, and also tips and useful feedback. But I would really like to receive messages more often – especially given the number of listeners. So, do you have a question, or would you like to know more about a certain topic? Please let us know!’

Did anything ever go wrong during filming?

Jeroen‘Nothing major, but we're just recording at the office. Not in a soundproof room or anything. So, what's happened to us a few times: colleagues whistling in the hallway, stomping on the stairs. And people opening the door of the room while talking: “Oh, you're recording a podcast!” Extra work for the editor to clean up such background noises, haha.’

Bas: ‘You also discover your own tics and habits. For example, I started every episode the same way, until Jeroen said, “That's the third time you've started with ”Yes, here we are again’." He, in turn, has a tendency to tap his pen on the table repeatedly.’

Jeroen: ‘And filler words! You only notice them when you listen back to yourself. You think, ’Oh man, that same word again.’ What kinds of filler words do we use? I’ll leave that up to your imagination, otherwise everyone will start paying attention to them…”

And now on to Season 2! Can you give us a little sneak peek?

Bas: ‘Certainly! The overall structure remains the same, with a few new things. We're noticing that some themes require more in-depth exploration: think about Polarization of anchoring of environmentally focused work. It's actually a shame to dedicate only one episode to that. That's why we package such themes in the form of a triptych: with three episodes and three different guests. In addition, we will also continue to make ‘regular’ episodes.’

Jeroen‘We also seek out more ‘abrasive’ topics: themes that are further from us, or that we feel we aren't yet very good at. To make the conversation more exciting and stimulating.’

BaseGood to report: the topics and guests for the second season are already almost filled. So we have twelve new episodes in the primer. That makes me proud.‘

JeroenYes, and I already have fifteen other topics in mind that I would like to explore as well. In any case, I'm really looking forward to making this second season together with Bas. As far as I'm concerned, this only makes me want more.‘

BaseLikewise! So keep an eye on your podcast app: the first episode will be released in early January. See you then!‘

Listen to the first season of "Proef op de SOM" (12 episodes) via Spotify. Do you have a question for Bas and Jeroen, or do you want to respond? Always welcome! Email at info@wesselinkvanzijst.nl.

Marketing & communications consultant

Amber Visch

Senior consultant

Bas Liebeek